The hunted becomes the hunter – Dating 2009
I’ve been married for most of my adult life. Yet for the past 5 years I’m back in the singles category. Maneuvering through the dating world at a more mature stage in life has proved challenging to me as it seems all of the norms have drastically changed.
Coming of age in the 80’s, my dad told me that men are natural hunters and when a man really wants a woman he will pursue her. He said that a man may deal with a women who pursues him but most likely she is just somebody to pass the time until the one he really wants comes along. I’ve always believed his theory and have governed myself by this principle. Meaning I really do not pursue men and since most women back 15-20 years ago seemed to govern themselves the same it was all good. But now it appears that women have become the more aggressive gender and it seems that it is the norm for women to do the hunting and to pursue the man. I have begun to wonder if possibly this is an outdated theory.
So my questions to you are, first do you believe that this was ever a valid theory and if so, have men lost their instinct to hunt? If a women is looking for a lifetime mate and not just a hook up, is it okay for a woman to pursue a man for this intent? Is there anything instinctual in a man to want to choose his mate or is it acceptable to a man for the woman to choose him?
Signed: Outdating
Dear Outdating, this is a great common dilemma. I’ve spoken to many people who are frankly afraid of the new dive back into the dating pool. The first problem is that they don’t have that fearless / recklessness of their youth. The second factor is that they are competing with a much younger stock of suitors. Thirdly is the maturing of their patience which is less tolerant of drama that others may bring.
My particular experience may not be the norm in regards to dating. So I may need commentators’ assistance on this one. Yet traditionally, men were hunters, and women were trappers. Men hunt short term ass, women trap long term commitment. Now the rolls are slowly evolving. Women are hunting a bit more and trapping less. I discovered early in life that 
women where trappers. From the tears of girls in high school pleading that they loved me, to the “I’m pregnant with your baby”, of my 20’s, to the ultimatums of my 30’s. Now men’s obligation to make the first move is diminishing. But after a man shows his skill-set, the tide would change. Either she would see value in him and slowly begin to pursue (trap) him more and more. Or if his skill-set was seriously deficient, he would have to manufacture value in being flashy or over compensating with material assets in order to keep the woman interested.
At this late stage in the game, the frauds are exposed. Older people can sniff out a fake, women know from the start that the Range Rover and Motorcycle is a front for the fact that he can’t hold a conversation. The amount of quality available people in the dating pool is limited. Yet the pool is full of people you don’t want, and you walk right past them every day.
The men with the skill-set that you want are so few and far between that they know they are a hot commodity so they choose slow. Matter of a fact, they may not choose at all. They sit back with a smooth approach just to allow you the opportunity to bid for their time.
We as a society are moving toward a world where marriage and commitment means little to nothing (except in the gay community- how nice would it be to have heterosexual black men take to the streets in protest for the importance of marriage). Post-women’s Liberation movement, between women trading-up to better men, and men collecting women like a hobby, we are left to teach our daughters to be independent and not count on a man. Women are more educated and higher paid, so to date to no means tends to be the trend.
Popularity of women’s independence while forcing monogamy on the male species are in direct contradiction to each other. We are living a conundrum where the answer is a tailspin. With independence comes aggressiveness in women, which creates opportunity for men. With successful monogamy comes less opportunity; hence a contradiction.
I don’t believe men have lost their instinct to hunt, they have adapted to their prey by mastering the skill of the passive trap (and release). If you want a man to commit to you and be faithful to you, you have to first come to terms with the fact that this is against our nature. From that perspective, then maybe women can come up with a better solution. But to be in denial of this fact will always entail heartache.
A successful relationship is where two people meet in the middle. If one is required to make all the moves and carry the relationship, either he will get tired, or the other party is not interested anyway. So it doesn’t matter who initiates pursuit. Be only willing to go half way and wait a short while for the other person to do his part. If not, move on.
“If you want a man to commit to you and be faithful to you, you have to first come to terms with the fact that this is against our nature. From that perspective, then maybe women can come up with a better solution. But to be in denial of this fact will always entail heartache”…WOW…LOL! That statement could not have better solidified my treatment of relationships with men. I have male friends that I would guess feel the same way but why enter a relationship if you have no plans on being faithful and committed? Now you (the writer of this article) may not mean it this way but I took that statement as, “as a man, I’m GOING to cheat & I might not even really want YOU, but deal with it! If it hurts you, shut up.” I find this article rather comical because as a woman who does not play the “distressed, I can’t believe he did that to me” role…I can’t believe hunting for short term ass is just a male behavior. It may be expected and accepted by men but as a woman, that’s what makes our game so cold. A woman that treats these dudes like the USDA they are is considered a cold piece of work. Men are just as bit of clingy trappers as women. I know from experience, I can’t get a dude that just wants to have fun. They all want to throw that M word around. Personally, I do don’t all that well in committed relationships. I get bored with the stroke, conversation and overall monotony so I typically end up sampling some other Grade A!!! Since “its in mens nature to not be faithful & women need to eat too”… I don’t think hunting is the problem. Being hunted and expecting your mate to be faithful isn’t the problem either. I think where women go wrong is, they don’t have their piece on the side too! Think like a man, act like a lady!
I too, have recently re-entered the world of dating. HATE IT! Apparently it is the new norm, for women to chase the men. I’ve seen this, several times with relatives, friends and friends of friends. I was so embarrassed for them (I hope that didn’t come off as too stuffy). The women are very AGGRESSIVE, relentless and diligent, in pursuing men, with hopes of establishing long-term relationships (marriage). Didn’t it use to be the Dog(men) chasin the PussyCat(women)? Now, it’s a Power game of: BIG PUSSYcat (women) and Mouse (men). Hence, emphasis on the “BIG PUSSY”. I don’t know…..it could be that, the women in pursuit, are exercising they’re new “Power Skills.” Im just sayin, I guess all that damn independence done paid off. Regardless of their intentions; women in pursuit of men, with the intentions of establishing a relationship is….. a lil bit THIRSTY. I view it like this…If he doesn’t respond to or show ANY interest in you after the first few (obvious & direct) flirts, assume he’s Gay and move on!(hee hee) In answer to the question: Yes, men pursuing women, is a valid and effective theory. As a woman or as women, we are naturally attracted to men of Power. So, this whole issue of the Hunted becoming the Hunter, goes against our nature as women. I remember when I was about 7 years old, I would ear hustle at the bedroom door of my Big Mama’s house, while she was talking with one of my love struck and (dick dumb) aunties, telling her that there are plenty fish in the sea, blah, blah, blah and lastly, the comment that tickled me the most and stuck with me for life: “Honey, Hens don’t chase Roosters.” I knew exactly what she meant and I live by that rule today.
Elisa, I don’t even know where to start with you. I need to number this shit.
1. You are the perfect example of an independent woman, the woman that men can slip up on their monogamy with.
2. You state that men cling and trap too, given your experience. You are challenging hunt. Men want to conquer you. You are a tough cookie to crack and force to bend to the will of a man. This is what we want. We are used to women trying to trap us, and when they refuse, we try harder. Try this the next time a man uses the M word. Say yes. From that moment forward his intention will deflate like a slow leak on the way to Vegas.
3. Think like a man, act like a lady; sounds like a better solution or at lease a different tactic that may not end in as much self-inflicted heartache.
4. You ask, why enter a relationship with no plans to be faithful. We do this for a few reasons. The first of which is greed. We want to have that person to ourselves and the best way to lock them away from other “Grade A USDA” is to make them commit to us. The second reason is our desire to give a person whatever they desire. Even when we can’t even give it, we still attempt to give. Thirdly, we are human and fall short on our promises and give-in to the sins of the flesh, especially from all the independent women that pass it out like it’s a free sample of cosmetics.
LOL, DOWN BOY! I bet you were vigorously typing away, alternating between frowns and that sinister grin (about Jermaine) all the while mumbling to yourself “hmm, ha”.
As for point number two, I’m going to rule that a comp-la-diss! Thanks for the advice be I will have to pass, the last time I gave in to the whining ways of a clingy man just to appease and reduce the drama it didn’t turn out that well. In fact it’s a perfect story for your “stalker” post and not to mention it turned violent. So, thanks but no thanks! I think I will continue to be as honest as possible with these beef cakes.
Point one, just mean! But according to this article and “how to keep a man faithful” no matter what we women do, a man will sample and dip when he feels the urge and there is little a woman can do about it but shut up and take it. So I’d say that statement is muted by various contradictions throughout the site.
Point three, I wish I could coin that term but I cant. Read Steve Harvey’s book “Think Like a Man, Act Like a Lady”. However, with my four brothers and majority of male friends…this has always been my motto. Helps me with “self initiated heartbreak”.
Point four, the question was rhetorical but again, thanks. Women like men give into the sins of the flesh so that to me is very low on the “I need” list. As for the independent women that pass it out like it’s free sample of cosmetics, all cosmetics are not quality products so men should be careful which product they choose to sample or they too may find themselves the hunted/stalked or maybe even a little irritation from that free product. Ever think women are playing their own form of catch and release? Finding a man of quality is a hard thing, and since I’m not into the business of chasing men, why not use them for what they are good for? Yes boo you can come over, I’ll feed you a hot meal…but don’t forget your cute little tool belt and pack of Golds!
Thank you JH for your response and thank you to the other respondents. Wow JH you paint a pretty bleak picture for a sistah. If I allowed my carnal mind to take me on a tangent I might believe that my only options are: 1)allow myself to become a booty call or 2) beome a lesbian or 3) get a house full of cats and accept lonelyness. But glory be to God that at moments like this his promises reign in my heart. Matthew 6:33 “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness and all shall be added unto you”. Guess it’s time for me to truly seek because the alternative seems like destruction, defilement and unhappiness. To all my sistahs out there, the black woman has endured and continues to endure the roughest and toughest road of all humankind and “yet we still rise”.
No matter if the response come back like a jack hammer I truly enjoy the exchange and I have grown just hearing what others have to say. Keep it up.
Peace & Blessings
I was invited to view this site by a dear friend and I have truly enjoyed the exchanges. While the viewpoints differ greatly, I agree with both Elisa and JHarris. I, too, have recently re-entered the dating world after being married for most of my adult life. Yes, Mademoiselle, I experienced culture shock as well because my “Big Mama” taught me the same thing. But being women, we adapt. While I would not call myself a hunter nor would I call myself prey, exclusively. I am a strong, intelligent, independent, beautiful, vivacious, sexy-ass, biker chick who knows what I want out of life and am not afraid to go get it. I know my worth as a woman and as a human being and I will not allow myself to be treated as common merchandise to be handled, bought, sold, andor traded or worse yet, to be treated like a semen recepticle whenever an urge should strike him. DO NOT take that to mean that I don’t like to climb the walls or break it down on a brotha because I love to make it do what it do BUT you have got to know your role and be truthful about it. Men are always hanging around waiting in the wings for their opportunity to “change my life”. Whether to love me, marry me, break me down, teach me something, be my benefactor, benefit from me or whatever else his mind told him to try. That just makes my grab bag more interesting because the choice is mine and I will choose the one that fits the bill. So while I don’t pursue men, I have been know to slow down to let one catch me when I am in the mood. The key point is: when I am in the mood. At that point, I go to my grab and choose what I will. Whatever type of man my mood calls for, believe me there is one in the bag. There are women out there who are prey; they are usually the first to be discarded because they tend to give up their power for whatever he opts to give them. There are women out there who are the hunters; they take pleasure in conquering men and usually get bored with their conquests before long. Then there are women like myself, who are a curious mix of both. I select my male according to my needs, wants, and desires. Meaning I am not going to call “Mr. Feel Good” when I am in the mood for “Mr Do Good”. I am not going to call the “Pretty Muthafucka” when I need a “Soldier”. On the other hand, I am not going to be “Betty Badass” when he wants to see “Molly Homemaker” either. I’ll sell him a dream if that’s what he’s into. People lie to themself all the time so why not let him see what he wants and needs to see. It is all a game of bait and switch and men are willing participants as long as you stroke their ego, stroke their dicks, make them feel like they conquered you, or make them believe that they can’t live without you. None of these are very hard to do. Simply be the woman you are and men will gravitate to you because of who you are. Men are not unique and, unfortunately, neither are women. The dance between men and women has been going on since before Adam and Eve. It is just that now what has been done in the dark has come to light.
MsPhoenix you ride? You seem like a confident, well spoken woman. That’s a good thing. Are you really sure of yourself or is this perfect mix of a dream just a fantasy in your head? You sound like the perfect woman… Or is this discription of yourself a cover for insecurities? My wife does that…baby I look good…don’t I? Why state then ask?
Elisa, you are a cold piece of work. But you show all your cards. Why do you hate men? I feel sorry for you when you finally fall in love. You are going to be crazy b/c of holding back for a long time. I usually like my women more dosile but since you are asking for a pack of golds you might hold your own during grown up time. That a man cant be mad at. Do your men know you treat them like USDA meats? LOL that was cute.
Outdating, don’t take either of these ladies advice, I bet they are both single. Listen to the married man…he was obviously successful dating. Better yet ask his wife how she caught him.
AV, thank you for your compliment but you are wrong on several counts. I am not single but I was for a short time and it was a learning experience to say the least. Secondly, I am FAR from the perfect woman and never stated or portrayed myself as such. I know my worth, and yes, I am sure of myself. That is not to say that I am perfect and never miss the mark or judge things wrong and make mistakes; sure I do. What I consider a “curious mix of both” is just that; if you perceive that as being “the perfect mix” then maybe you should tread easy because you sound like one of the brothas standing by to jump in some woman’s grab bag. I hope, for your wife’s sake, that you never lower yourself to do that, but that you take out some additional time to reassure your wife in the areas that she is insecure and build her up; thereby uplifting your household. You stated Elisa hates men. I don’t know her so I can’t say if she does or doesn’t but from her posts, she sounds a woman who knows what she wants and is honest about it. That, in my opinion, does not make her a cold piece of work. It says that she is true to herself and I applaud her for that. Time and circumstances tend to change things dramatically and should her perceptions change and she find herself wanting to be in a committed relationship, I am sure that, as women do, she will adapt. As for advising Outdating not to take advice from myself or Elisa, I agree with you on that because everything is not for everbody, however, I don’t see that any was offered by either of us. We offered different perceptions and viewpoints for consideration. In my opinion, Outdating, already has the best solution.
To Outdating- You sound like a woman well acquainted with the promises of God and you know that the just shall live by faith. (Girl let your light shine over here in my darkness! Being a PK, I feel you…:D) I already expressed my POINT OF VIEW based on MY past experiences. NOW, I’m going to give you some ADVICE! Here goes:
You are to possess your vessel according 1 Thessalonians 4:4 with says “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God” with the understanding that, according to Proverbs 18:22, “Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD” which by my understanding means he will find you. That being said, “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” The result being, “and the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.” according to Philippians 4:6-7. Follow that up with a little Mark 11:24, “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”
Sistah, it will be well with you if you CHOOSE to do it God’s way. If you CHOOSE to fumble in the darkness, as some of us do, you will suffer bumps and bruises, some highs and some lows, AND IT WILL TAKE A LOT LONGER, but you will find your way because God’s grace is sufficient. Be well and continue to be blessed.
I agree with your dad, Mrs. Outdating. I hate to sound sexist or naive, but I really do believe that men and women should exhibit their natural roles in a heterosexual relationship.
For example, if most male mammals are willing to fight for their mate, why can’t men do the same for women? Isn’t every real woman deserving of this type of treatment? The men that I know, and or the men who I’ve been in a relationship with seem to love so much more passionately while dating the woman who they pursued. I think that it is up to women to give the man a hint, but ultimately the hunting should be left to him.
“Without passion, you don’t have energy; without energy, you have nothing. Nothing great in the world has been accomplished without passion.” – unknown author
Wow this was a fun rollercoaster ride. JH as an educated elite member of our community I was dissappointed to read your comment that “commitment and or being faithful is against a mans nature”. Don’t you think it is time for Black men to stop hiding behind excuses from “it is against a mans nature” to “the black women is confrontational” as the reason why they can’t be faithful husbands. I have more white girlfriends than black and the truth of the matter is white men for the most part are faithful after marriage so it is not a man thing it is a black man thing. And you can’t say it’s because the white women isn’t confrontational because most of the white women and latina women I know have more attitude and are much more demanding than any sistah I’ve ever known. What are we to teach our daughters if we are teaching our sons that it is in their nature to be unfaithful. Shall we tell our daughters to just expect and accept deceit and lies from their mates? The truth of the matter is, it is time for black men to truly face their demons and rise up to lead their families and our communities to a better place. Black men need to really look at the reasons why they fill compelled to continue to have to conquer women at regular intervals even after marriage. We all really know the truth which is, conquering a new woman provides a self esteem boost. For that hour or day or month that a man is in pursuit of or involved in the act of having a new woman give herself to him wheter it be sexual, or emotional it gives a man a self esteem boost. Instead of teaching the next generation that it is in there nature to cheat get a group of men together brainstorm and really figure out the reasons why ya’ll cheat, the deep reasons not the surface ones and work your way to a better way. Black families and the black community is in crisis. The church and the family are the cornerstone. We need to promote ideas that will repair and build our families and our communities. If we don’t rise up and find a better way, we will continue to be the lowest on the totum pole. The mexican who just entered this country is/has passing us by. Men we need you to do better or soon there will be no more Africans in America.
Ouch… you hit me hard there. I can’t argue against you at all. My apologies to all the women of the world who have been hurt due to some men’s extra activity. Yet your original question didn’t deal with marital infidelity, you were focused on the chase of dating. We shall hope that men, regardless of race, who make the commitment of marriage has come to a pass in his life regarding fidelity. Yet that has little to do with the thrill of the hunt of single people. Statistically, black men have a more difficult time with the commitment of marriage for a number of reasons. It is obvious that they place a lower value on the marital lifestyle than do most other races in America. This is something that a black woman is just going to have to face.
As an “educated” member of our community, I have to call it like a see it, and answer your question as it applies to everyday life. As a leader of our community, I have brought this topic up during my monthly men’s breakfast. I am doing all that I can to walk the walk, and talk the talk. Men don’t need to talk about why we cheat, that would be a silly question among a group of men. Yet we can talk about the ramifications of that lifestyle and hope that the advice is heeded to. Just as women should meet and discuss not being so competitve and disrespectful of other womens relationships.
Other nationalities cheat too. They may not cheat as much, but it only takes one time to get caught, and the woman’s life is turned upside down just the same. Men will avoid marriage and cheat for as long as it makes more sense to do so. What women can be used for and their ultimate value in our lives is not for us to decide. That my dear is up to women to give in, give up or put out.
Point well taken and I apologize if I came out too unedited : ) Your totally right the problem needs to be addressed from both sides because if women refused to get involved and be involved with a man when he is already involved with someone else we wouldn’t have to have this discussion, this issue would be moot. Women too get an ego boost in these situations. I havenot always been the best at respecting those boundaries so I’m not coming from a position of self righteousness but we all grow and learn. I now know that no matter what my needs are and no matter if I’m just having fun with someone elese’s man there is a wife or girlfriend and a family that is being harmed in the process so now I stop, look and listen before I move. But I’m 44 it took me a while to come into this type of wisdom. We are all connected so every bad act no only affects us but it affects families and communities and ultimately comes back and affects us the doer. if we see our actions from that perspective maybe we will make better choices.
Amen
“Men will avoid marriage and cheat for as long as it makes more sense to do so. What women can be used for and their ultimate value in our lives is not for us to decide. That my dear is up to women to give in, give up or put out.”
I believe this statement wholeheartedly. It doesn’t make it right or wrong; it is just the way things are. Yes, ideally, men should hunt and women should allow themselves to be hunted. (That is a little different than allowing themselves to be prey.) When a woman allows a man to hunt her, whether she allows him to catch her or not, it reaffirms that she is viable catch and worthy of the hunt and simultaneously, allows her to see his strengths and prowess as a possible mate. However, when a women allows herself to become prey, she becomes unclear of her self worth, thereby effectively losing her previous value in the eye of the hunter. No longer is she the prized catch but she “will do” until a better catch comes along. When you’re hunting, coming home with a smaller, weaker doe, in place of the alpha buck, (while less honorable) is still better than coming home empty handed. As long as women settle for being second best and a matter of convenience, men will treat them as such. It is up to us as women, to decide whether we will allow ourselves to hunted as equals worthy of the hunt because of the value we place upon our selves and reflect outward or to be preyed upon by a hunter who does not honor the hunt and is not looking for quality or value but simply doesn’t want to go home empty handed. It all comes back to CHOICE. When a true hunter finds a worthy catch, a hundred lessor kills can come his way but he will not be satisfied until he bags the one that challenged and eluded him most.
And yes, while literally hunting animals is a vile sport to some, I have gone hunting a time or two. It is something I learned from my grandparents and parents when I was younger. They taught me that you don’t waste buckshot and you certainly don’t shoot at everything that comes your way; there are no “practice shots”. How much different should it be for men hunting women?
Wow, intense. I’m a bit afraid to put my opinion down. MsPheonix and Elisa I think I agree with the both of you, but I am a hunter all the way! I like to play the passive aggressive sweet, independent, mysterious role. I’m probably not as confident as the role I play on tv but it works for me. Mr. Harris what was the typical female you used to hunt? I’m curious to know if you married “your type” or did someone opposite of “your type” sweep you off your feet? From your posting and comments you seem like the Alpha Male. Have you ever been victim of a hunt? How do you think men feel when they realized they’ve been the prey?
I never had a particular type of woman. I enjoyed getting to know the differences in women. I didn’t really hunt, I’d more like lure, then release the damaged ones that entered my domain. Yet my Alphaness makes most aggressive women relax and submit. But a requirement of a relationship that my wife does have is that she has to be able to stimulate me mentally.
I think men rarely know when they are victims. They just get frustrated when they can’t get rid of a woman like gum on his shoe.
Qui that’s a good role to play and you are right it does work very well! I play a very similar role myself! Say a lot with out saying much, always stroke their ego, stay away from dream smashing even though you don’t give a darn. But never really let them into your life. I think most women play that role to some degree, some just play a smarter game of lure and release ;o)! By the way Mr. Harris, that’s hilarious! Almost as funny as the glue reference!